Why Muslims are not happy with Jonathan – Ahmed, Chief missioner, Ansar-Ud-Deen

■ Says, Nigeria more divided under president
If there is any Nigerian so much troubled by the political, social and, of course, economic situation in Nigeria, it is Sheikh Abdul-Rahman Ahmed, Chief Missioner of Ansar-Ud-Deen Society of Nigeria. He spoke with VINCENT KALU, taking a historical excursion on how the high hopes, dreams and aspiration the nation had at independence were shattered, and also proffered suggestions on how to recover them. He commented on the election that comes in two weeks and bemoaned that President Goodluck Jonathan has not been fair to Muslims, adding that he has divided the country along ethnic and religious lines.
Excerpts:
Through your organisation, Movement Against Corruption (MAC), you were crusading against corruption, not much is heard about it, why?
It is a challenge that we are grap­pling with as corruption becomes institutionalised and the political will is either totally absent or is very weak to fight corruption, then anti-corruption effortsbecome very challenging indeed.
I want to say that the Movement Against Corruption for a very long time has been in the vanguard of crusading against corruption in all of its ramifications. You know like so many things Nigerian, the Nige­rian dialectics caught up with it and it was reduced to individuals trying to fight with whatever they could of the monster that corruption has become. You will recall that we raised issues during the time of Farida Waziri, when she was at the helm of affairsof EFCC, and we thought this was our duty and that was what we were set up for.
The EFCC that has shown so much promise and we were at a time collaborating with is a different EFCC now and the mandate has remained the same. I think it is no longer the same zeal, the same vigour, the same single-minded­ness that we used to know of it and so many activists have withdrawn in the surging wave of corruption. Even the media that is vibrant, pro­fessionally bold as it is, has found interesting bad news, and corrup­tion has become no news as there is much more bad news. This is where we are.
Are you saying the level of corruption in Nigeria overwhelmed your organisation?
Yes, it overwhelmed all groups. It will take Obasanjo, for example, now to draw attention to corruption before it becomes news. It is not the corruption that he is drawing attention to that is news, but the person that is drawing attention to corruption that is the news. We all live through it. The quantum and the quality of corruption that we witness now are such that anti-cor­ruption effortshave been reduced to trifle
Corruption has become such a monster that it has taken over the central command of the Nigerian body politic. It is everywhere even in the armed forces, in the churches and mosques, in the maternity ward, in the classroom, in the pri­mary school, in the university, in the markets, in the examination bodies, in medicine. Everywhere you find corruption and it is always mutating and dangerous than the AIDS virus.
Where did the rain begin to drench us in this corruption issue?
I can say that I’m fortunate to know Nigeria that had a relative level of reasonable probity. I had a good fortuneof meeting some of the politicians of the First Republic. I had enough political consciousness before the Nigerian civil war and also had an understanding of what it was to have integrity and how society functioned, but it is nothing now.
I find it very difficultat time to convince my children that we once had a Nigeria, where there was a system, where things worked. Where did we start to get it wrong? The aftermath ofthe unfortunate civil war marked the beginning of this monster. It was when the seed was sowed. The governments in the region were engaged in healthy competition- the North was at­tempting to measure up education­ally, the West was setting the pace in education and communication infrastructure and the East was do­ing industrialisation and infrastruc­tural development and much later the Midwest. We had semblance of vibrancy, accountability, a system that worked and roads were built of the highest quality. It was at that time that Nigeria made history in Africa as the first to have a televi­sion station. It was scoring so many firsts, I’m not saying that the leaders were angels, but the primordial sentiments that led to the coup and counter coup and the war marked the beginning of relative erosion of the core values that defined us as a people, as Africans, as Hausas, as Igbos, as Yorubas, Fulanis, Ijawas, Ibibios, etc.
Do you remember the Udoji Award, the conspicuous consumption that came as a result of that when they opened the gate of reckless lack of accountability? Again, some people may say that the military interregnum saw to the end of culture of good governance and accountability. It was this time that the neglect of education started. I think the seed of high level of corruption was sowed. When you sow a seed, give it time it germi­nates, grows and it will no longer be something that you can remove with your hand easily, it becomes a tree and bears fruits.
Corruption today has become complex, and perhaps that was why the President said they would fight corruption with technology. As far as I’m concerned this was the beginning of the very high level of corruption we have in Nigeria. Even the manner in which states were created was not so much that those who created the states had development in mind. Some states were created because a particular girl friend of a particular Head of state or a particular member of the Nigeria Supreme Military Council came from a particular region and so states were awarded; it became a reward system and the attendant corruption.
Even in the midst of all these madness, we had a sence of purpose once. Take it or leave it, the Muritala regime tried in spite of its imperfectionsto bring Nigerians together. There has never been any other leader in the history of this country that has enjoyed that goodwill because when he was killed people all over Nigeria mourned, Hausas mourned, the Yorubas mourned likewise the Igbos. You will almost find Murtala Mohammed Way in almost every part ofthis country, and what happened after that is history today.
We stared getting it wrong from the introduction of primordial sen­timents and loyalty and setting peo­ple against each other or ruling the people by keeping them apart by reducing the commonwealth of Ni­geria to means of patronage. This to me is exactly where we started get­ting it wrong. We turned from being a hard working people to rain seek­ers; we created a group of elites that has deep rooted enlightened self interest. Everything from that point was defined not by national interest but by vested self interest. Airports, industries etc, everything was not defined by economic viability. Contractors selling of contract papers, general rain seekers. We started a lifestyle that can no longer be sustained with hard work, but can only be sustained by corruption. Corruption was deliberately left to fester.
How do we come out this mess?
We were people with identity. This is Nigeria that we met. I’m from Ilorin, before the civil war, some Igbos lived in Ilorin, and built houses. With the outbreak of the civil war, they had to leave and there was not the issue of aban­doned property. I remember this man, our neighbour, he had two daughters, one was Ogali and the other Elina. We were calling him Baba Ogali or Baba Elina. We never saw him as differentfrom us, may be, we believe Igbos are different because they work extra hard. That was what we appreciated them for and not negatively. After the civil war, they came back, and the houses they left were retuned to them, nobody vandalised or stole anything and they could not believe it. This is the Nigeria that we were born into, we were people that were proud, placed a lot of premium on our good name, hard work, and integrity. They asked you, ‘who is your father?’ We left all of those core values that defined us as a people. I think we have to go back to those values as a starting point, we are not rain seekers, we are not scammers, we are not terrorists, it is not in our nature, we are not blood suckers. It is very important to rediscover who we are. It is very important for all to resolve to enthrone a leadership that has a programme, that is committed and has integrity.
I cry for Nigeria today. What is the substance that we have, what is the programme, what is the roadmap, are we continuing or changing? We are continuing to what and we are changing to what? It remains largely vague and emotionally driven. I do not believe that our problem is our plurality, no, our problem is not our multi-ethnic nature, no, instead, it is our strength. We as a people must resolve to do things differently. This is an opportunity now. We have seen it all and golden opportunity indeed. Secondly, look at what has happened to education. I’m sure you (the interviewer) went to the best school and it is a government school and you had quality education, see what has happened, every retired general has a university or is applying for one. Every former president, senator, governor, has a university. We have to really go back to what defined our potential as a nation, our potential leadership position in Africa.
Thirdly, it is unfortunatethat the discovery of oil rather than be a blessing has become a curse. Unfortunatelyyou and I have nothing to show for it. I think paradoxically the closest Nigerians went to enjoying the boom was the Udoji Award, which of course made the basis of the kind of economy that we have today – so many windfalls, so many earnings, but really nothing to show for it. I ask myself what do I get, what benefit accrue to me for being a Nigerian? If you were born in the United States, you have benefit as an American citizen. Go to American embassy anywhere in the world, you will feel proud. What do I stand to benefit in Nigeria and outside of Nigeria as a Nigerian citizens? These should be our considerations not for our leaders.
What difference does it make for us to have a Muslim or a Christian or a Babalawo head of state? I don’t know because at the end of the day, it is not so much about religion, it is about the quality of the intellect and the ability of the individuals concerned to deliver on the expectations of Nigerians. What we have discovered is that every presi­dent would finish his term with his own people complaining that he has done nothing for them. This has been the trend. Obasanjo was there for eight years and the Yorubas say he didn’t do anything for them and yet we continue to clamour that it must be our man that must be there. What has been the result? The Niger Deltas are complaining. What has Jonathan done for the popular Second Niger Bridge, which is still a subject of controversy? The development of the Niger Delta, the cleaning of the Niger Delta, all these are promises, in spite of the fact that there is a Niger Delta person at the helm. The many presidents from the North, what has it benefitted the region as whole in real time. Is it not time for us to consider some other factors. Yoruba presidency, Niger Delta presidency, Igbo presidency, Hausa presidency, what has it benefitted Nigeria, what has it benefitted the people that are clamouring? It is not about the people, it is about a very tiny elites that are manipulating the primordial sentiments of the majority of the people. At the end of the day they make the people enemies to one another. We have nothing to show for it.
I’m sure 15 years ago, the Igbo man in Lagos felt more secured than today. You get the kind of leaders that you deserved. Salaries are not being paid today, contractors are owed. I just read today that the budget of Federal Ministry of Works has been slashed from N100 billion to N11 billion. This is the time they talk about ‘sharing’ not in naira but in dollars from churches to mosques and shrines. I have not taken part in it. The naira at the same time is tumbling, what are we going to gain? We are close to anarchy, look at the trafficsituation in Lagos, just because people want to win an election, law and order is no longer important. This is not a Nigeria that we expected at independence, even though some of us were so young at independence but they told us how life was going to be better as we were at par with the English, Americans and there was that promise and the world was waiting for us. But now, we have shattered dream, forlorn hope, our nation badly bruised and battered. This is the bargains that Nigerians have got.
I don’t like to use what the politi­cians have said, it is reorientation, who is reorientation who?
Successive governments have come up with programmes to rediscover the lost values. Shagari came up with Ethical Revolution, Buhari introduced War Against Indis­cipline (WAI), Babangida had War Against Indiscipline and Corruption (WAIC) and later MAMSER, Obasanjo had his own and Yar’Adua had Rebrand Nigeria Project. Like you observed we seemed not have made a headway, why?
No way. All these are to placate the people, to highjack popular sentiments,and to corner the nation. From Ethical Revolution to War Against Indiscipline to MAMSER, to Rebrand Nigeria to EFCC, to ICPC, we have gained nothing because all these efforts have not been driven by the people. It has been driven by the same culprits and it is a means of high jacking the nation and redirecting it. Unfortunately, these projects have used a lot of money. At a point, Tai Solarin almost compromised. This for example is different fromthe kind of thing that happened elsewhere in the world, where it is the people themselves who own and drive the change efforts.We need to own these struggles, drive them, they must be owned by the people not funded by the same government that is accused of corruption. That is why they ended the way they did.
EFCC show a lot of promise, then it became an attack dog and now a toothless bulldog. A lot of people believed that it was used, but you can see the fact that Nigerians have a lot of potentials to be law abiding in the days of the fearfulNuhu Ribadu. That name, Nuhu alone would caution people. By then, we realised that there were much more that met the eyes, the ultimate prove is what we saw subsequently. The catcher has become the thief.
There are drumbeats of war over this election. Some threatening fire and brimstone if their candidate doesn’t win, while others say hell will fall if their candidate loses? What are you expectations?
I’m sure those who are calling on the keepers of hell to open the gates are the sure candidate to hell. Nigeria will survive this like it survived previous predictions of doom. It is those who are benefitting illicitly from the status quo that are beating the drums of war. The ordinary Nigerians only hope for a government that will restore their humanity, because Nigerians are depraved, they have been dehumanised. There is little differencebetween living in Nigeria and living in hell. It is just that living in Nigeria you are still alive and ones in a while you can get… even those who promised fresh air when they were coming are more guilty of polluting the air.
My expectation is that this election should hold. It should be free, fair and transparent. Nigerians should exercise their rights to vote for a candidate of their choice. It is their judgement and whoever wins the election in a free, fair, peaceful and transparent election should be allowed to form the government. There should never be an attempt for an interim national contraption. Those who are beating the drums of war should be prepared for the macabre dance that they and their families will participate in. Nigerians today are wiser, they know there is no candidate that is worth dying for. They know that as tough as life is in Nigeria, life is still better than death and I believe Nigerians want to live together. They are not enemies to each other. The Igbo is not the enemy of the Hausa man, the Hausa is not the enemy of the Yoruba man, we sell in the same market, we are in the same profession as journalists, engineers, accountants etc; our children attend the same schools and they are friends, and they don’t understand these quarrels.
You said the country is polarized along ethic and religious lines. One significant featureof this election is that President Jonathan has been visiting big churches; some argued that it is for endorsement. Have the Muslims endorsed Buhari secretly or openly, because the mindset of the ordinary Nigerian is that Christians are for Jonathan and Muslims for Buhari?
Muslims, we have not endorsed Buhari. You can’t endorse anybody secretly, that will not be an endorsement. Of course, it is unfortunate today that there is the politicisation of religion and the religionszation of politics. Before today, we have been talking about politicisation of religion, but now we are talking about religionalisation of politics. Unfortunately by who? Not by people who are genuinely religious but people who are the companions of Judas and Lucifer putting on the toga of religion. The president of Nigeria is the president of everybody, Christians, pagans, Muslims and whatever.
I can tell you authoritatively that Muslims have resolved to votes according their consciences. We have not and will not endorse anyone in the manner it has become. Of course you and I know what endorsement means. Endorsement is not free; it comes with a very high prize tag to the detriment of the tax paying public. It is to the detriment of Nigeria whether or not is true over the allegation of seven billion naira price for endorsement, which is still a big news, and the about nine million dollars arms scandal. This tells us that desperate politicians who are trying to use religion should think twice because if they enkindle the fire of religion, they will be the first to be burnt.
What religion are we talking about? Are we talking about Christianity and Islam? If you are truly talking about Christianity and Islam, you are in mosque now, I’m an Imam and I know you are a Christian and you are not jittery but sitting comfortablyand I’m not about to blow you up. The ordinary Christians and ordinary Muslims are not enemies, these are sentiments that are being whipped up. Is there any Muslim that can become a president of this country only with Muslim votes or Christian that can become president only with Christian votes? Does it make sence, therefore, for me as a Muslim to say that anybody who is not a Muslim, don’t vote for him.
Does it make sense for a sitting president to go from church to church kneeling down attempting to preach? It is a travesty of that office. We have never had it so bad. It is bigotry of the highest order. This is the first time that a sitting Nigerian president is effectivelyemploying religion to effectively divide the people. It has become a state poli­cy. It is highly unfortunate, but I want to ensure you as a member of Nigerian Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, executive council member; and a member of Nigerian Inter Religious Council, that religious leaders who have not sold their conscience for a pot of porridge are still standing firm. They believe strongly that this is an aberration. They are acting and praying that this evil will not stand whether a Christian or a Muslim is perpetrating it. These people that are flying the banner of religion are in church on Sunday, and if they have the chance they will go to mosque on Friday , may be on Tuesday or Wednesday they will go to shrine. Are these religious people? There are Christians when they are in the church, Muslims when they are in the mosque, but at the same time, they are also traditionalists when they are in the shrine. Everything combined, as long as you just win the election.
There was a time you wanted to or­ganised meeting between Southern Islamic clerics and President Jona­than, what happened that it couldn’t hold?
How are you sure that I really tried to coordinate a meeting? Whatever posted in the social media has to be verified. However, the President is the president of the country and is free to see anybody anytime. The people are also free to see him or not. I don’t know what you are talking about.
I also know that Muslims in this country are asking why the president has suddenly developed so much interest in having a rapport with them. For years he has not shown friendship, he has not shown faith. I was part of delegation of Nigerian Supreme Council for Islamic Affairsled by our leader, the Sultan of Sokoto, before the National Confab started. A contraption began and we drew the attention of Mr. President to a number of things and that is why I believe all of these are not just mistakes, there are well planned. We told him to be sensitive to the feelings of other Nigerians , we are trying to solve a problem, don’t let any section of this country feel deliberately under represented, otherwise, the Conference will be dead on arrival. We also drew attention on how the muslims are feeling marginalised and we represent the Muslims, after we showed him the statistics, he promised that he was going to redressed it and he did nothing, and so many other things. Why is he interested in romancing the same community he has shunned , he had neglected for so long?
It took the leadership of the Muslims in the Southwest to draw his attention to certain imbalances. It is unfortunate where we have found ourselves. Today, everything is interpreted on the basis of religion, even in your office, if your editor is a Muslim, they will say his deputy will be a Christian. It has become so bad, but who started it? Before, Nigerians are not sensitive to this. There was a time majority of the governors in this country were Christians; majority of members of Supreme Military Council were Christians and nobody complained. T. Y. Danjuma is well accepted in the North as a leader, and he is a Christian, and nobody complained. Jerry Useni is from North and Christian and they never discriminated against him.
It is this government that has promoted this unwholesome rivalry, setting one against the other. You have done that for so long. The Yorubas are complaining, the Igbos are complaining but I heard they are also grumbling and the Hausas are equally complaining and grumbling.
It then means that all the ethnic groups are complaining of marginal­isation, who is marginalising them?
The people who are marginalising them are not the Muslims, they are not the Christians, they are not the Igbos, Hausas, Yorubas, but the elites. Go to the North, you see poverty, the kind of poverty you will not see in any part of this country is in the North. Lagos is part of Yoruba land, what have they benefitted from their kinsman being a strong man for eight years – appointment, education, social infrastructure, what? Truly, Nigerians are marginalised by the elites.
Ghana had the same problems…?
(Cuts in ) Ghana seized the opportunity they had. Take it or leave it, they did what they thought was the solution to their problem. I’m not going to pass judgement, may be the Ghanaian society is better for it. We have missed opportunities, this time round I think we have another opportunity .
Is it the opportunity of continuity or change?
The choice is yours. As far as I’m concerned, I asked myself continuing what or change to what. Before March 28, if I get an answer I will decide whether I want to continue. I’m not saying this is true or false, I’m asking myself, no light, continuity; no job, continuity; no education, continuity; industries are closing, continuity; naira is tumbling, continuity; no health, continuity; corruption everywhere, continuity. So, this continuity is wicked oh, and change is unknown. Change to what?
These are questions I’m still finding answers to. Whether we will change or continue, very fortunatelywe have golden opportunity of answering that question privately or secretly. That is the opportunity that I intend to take. Maybaselinebe when we come back in April, I can tell you whether I was able to answer that question. Whatever may be your answer to these questions, the baseline is that we must have a country beforeyou continue anything and you can’t change anything unless you have a country. So, let us preserve the country. The corner stone of continuity or change is the people. Dehumanised them, take hope away from them they become worse than animals.
Things will still come to public knowledge that will shock Nigerians on the magnitude of destruction going on. History will one day identify the backers, the funders, the sympathisers and the collaborators and it will be a day indeed.